Hondo's Cabin - After Chaos

Fernando

YaBB Administrator

NY City

Posts: 2380
Gender: male

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1470 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm

Personal note:

Quote from Jeanette on Aug 31^st, 2016, 4:22pm:

Things were going okay for the Texas Spirits, apocalyptic situation aside, until Fernando said something to Jeanette that made her change her mind and return to her time when the mission is over. This presents a problem for the Texas Spirits because they need her journal (the one which spans decades). To write the journal she either needs to stay or be an Immortal. Previous incentives to accept immortality have not worked. Though it is true that Jeanette can make her decision after she returns to her time, it would not be in the story.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:34am:

Why must it be tied a condition for her to get it?

Assuming I understand your question the answer is, Jeanette does not want immortality. The Texas Spirits want Jeanette to be an Immortal; they would not tie her to a bed to make her an Immortal. The only thing the Texas Spirits can do is give Jeanette an incentive to accept immortality.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:34am:

Like I said before, immortality for a service to be rendered (being a nurse...) is Indentured Servitude, which is illegal and akin to slavery.

One, the Texas Spirits are not offering immortality for services rendered. Two, no one would go through all this trouble to hire a nurse. Three, immortality simply makes it possible for Jeanette to write a journal for years to come. Four, the Texas Spirits don't need a nurse. They are giving her this job because they know she would love a job at the orphanage.

From "After Chaos: The Setting and Rules" under "Mutations Part 2, Mind and Body":

Quote from Jeanette on Jan 26^th, 2015, 8:59pm:

Shape shifting: Very limited, though. Any shape shifter must look like a creature it originally was, +/- 10% of the original size. Growing anything, like hair or nails, is very slow (they simply grow faster then usual), and requires more food. No "extra" organs. Changing the shape of the bones is an Expert ability, takes time and food, and hurts a lot.

Let's think about this. If Jeanette's original size can be reduced by 10%, what are the possibilities?

Jeanette Isabelle

Game Over?

Last post answered: There is a difference between shaft-shifting and rejuvenation of a body; which is why I am questioning the Spirit's abilities on that. Be reducing Jeanstte's stature by 10%, what is that going to accomplish? If she is (not looking at her character stats, so this is by example) 5'4" or 64", 10% of that is 6", which would make her 4'8" or 58". Age wise, that would place her in the start of puberty or just after it a around age 12 to 14.

But that is not the point. the point is - why the rejuvenation? Jeanette already did puberty, that is her history whether she went through a good time of it or not. Most importantly, it is what makes her the person she it today. Reverting her to a younger state takes away from that. Period.

It really does not matter whether she had a bad or a good time throughout puberty, or of how positively or negatively she thinks of herself. What does matter is that she is able to take the negatives and turn them into positives because Jeanette is a positive person. Why else would the spirits force this on her?

Again my (and my character's) issues are with the spirits. Not with Jeanette. Jeanette needs to sot down and think about the "why?" Once she figures that out, then she can figure out what is really needed and for whom. Fernando still thinks that there is a Nefarious set of actions the Spirits are taking. And he's beginning to think that this is a universe of their construct, copied from the time line we came from but they allowed to fall apart. It would answer a lot of questions if it were to be. Thus it gets ugly from there: to rebuild this universe from their actions that nearly destroyed it, they must need Jeanette and her journal to fix it. Thus this will trap her out of place and time to be in this universe until it is repaired. How many millennia will that take?

Back to top

IP Logged

Hondo I. Sackett

YaBB Administrator

Behind you!

Posts: 1349
Gender: male

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1471 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:30pm

I think I should point out it says size, not age. Jeanette would be reduced in size by 10% but that isn't reversing her age. She would just be a midget now, not 11. Old age to a bit younger age is just cellular regeneration once the body has stopped growing but puberty changes the mind as well as the body. It would be far easier to clone Jeanette, copy her memories and stop her growth at age 11 than it would ever be to revert her age to pre pubessence.

And my comment about time, you still don't get. You can't just write in the little journal and have everything changed in the morning. If the roads we're kept up by these aliens until now but aren't now then the travel time of the party would have been longer, some of these towns wouldn't exsiat, we might have gone a different route and never rescued anyone or maybe someone different. Every little change to the past would technically reset the story to where Fernando and Jeanette showed up in this time.

I had 5 other paragraphs written on this. Be glad I deleted them.

Back to top

Well the cowboy, like the red man, you had to leave your land
You can't raise your stock and plant your crop in the gumbo and the sand
Greed disguised as progress has put us to the test
They won't be glad until we're gone from our home out in the west
It's sad to see those good old days replaced with greed and doubt
Soon we'll leave the country, the campfire has gone out
Bid 'em all adieu, you can't turn the world about
The cowboy left the country, the campfire has gone out

IP Logged

Jeanette

Experianced

Posts: 1154

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1472 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:33pm

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

There is a difference between shaft-shifting and rejuvenation of a body; which is why I am questioning the Spirit's abilities on that.

Yes; does it matter how it is done as long as it is done?

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

Be reducing Jeanstte's stature by 10%, what is that going to accomplish? If she is (not looking at her character stats, so this is by example) 5'4" or 64", 10% of that is 6", which would make her 4'8" or 58". Age wise, that would place her in the start of puberty or just after it a around age 12 to 14.

If you look at the following chart you will see that a 10% reduction will put Jeanette at or almost at eleven years, hence why the story says Immortal Jeanette appears eleven. Since nothing happened to me at that age, Jeanette gets what she wants.

https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l022.pdf

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

Why else would the spirits force this on her?

The Texas Spirits want the journal.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

Fernando still thinks that there is a Nefarious set of actions the Spirits are taking. And he's beginning to think that this is a universe of their construct, copied from the time line we came from but they allowed to fall apart. It would answer a lot of questions if it were to be. Thus it gets ugly from there: to rebuild this universe from their actions that nearly destroyed it, they must need Jeanette and her journal to fix it. Thus this will trap her out of place and time to be in this universe until it is repaired. How many millennia will that take?

With all of the accusations thrown against the Texas Spirits, now it appears you are looking at the facts though the conclusion drawn from those facts is still off. What the Texas Spirits did do does have something to do with the situation the characters are in now. Something happened in the latest change in the time line: The Texas Spirit had a "oh my gosh" moment. They now see what happened. The funny thing in all this is they are not guilty of a single charge brought against them while the true charge has never been filed.

Jeanette Isabelle

Back to top

IP Logged

Jeanette

Experianced

Posts: 1154

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1473 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:52pm

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:30pm:

You can't just write in the little journal and have everything changed in the morning.

The Texas Spirits take the information they get. From that they know if something needs to be changed or not.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:30pm:

If the roads we're kept up by these aliens until now but aren't now then the travel time of the party would have been longer, some of these towns wouldn't exsiat, we might have gone a different route and never rescued anyone or maybe someone different.

Has the party traveled on fresh asphalt? No, they have not. Therefore nothing has changed in the area the party has been.

Jeanette Isabelle

Back to top

IP Logged

Hondo I. Sackett

YaBB Administrator

Behind you!

Posts: 1349
Gender: male

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1474 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 10:15pm

Like butter off a bald monkey. You missed it completely.

I am regretting letting you mod this.

Jefe, it's yours to deal with as I have no patience for this bull shit anymore.

Back to top

Well the cowboy, like the red man, you had to leave your land
You can't raise your stock and plant your crop in the gumbo and the sand
Greed disguised as progress has put us to the test
They won't be glad until we're gone from our home out in the west
It's sad to see those good old days replaced with greed and doubt
Soon we'll leave the country, the campfire has gone out
Bid 'em all adieu, you can't turn the world about
The cowboy left the country, the campfire has gone out

IP Logged

Fernando

YaBB Administrator

NY City

Posts: 2380
Gender: male

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1475 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm

Quote from Jeanette on Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:33pm:

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

There is a difference between shaft-shifting and rejuvenation of a body; which is why I am questioning the Spirit's abilities on that.

Yes; does it matter how it is done as long as it is done?

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

Be reducing Jeanstte's stature by 10%, what is that going to accomplish? If she is (not looking at her character stats, so this is by example) 5'4" or 64", 10% of that is 6", which would make her 4'8" or 58". Age wise, that would place her in the start of puberty or just after it a around age 12 to 14.

If you look at the following chart you will see that a 10% reduction will put Jeanette at or almost at eleven years, hence why the story says Immortal Jeanette appears eleven. Since nothing happened to me at that age, Jeanette gets what she wants.

https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l022.pdf

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

Why else would the spirits force this on her?

The Texas Spirits want the journal.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 6:30pm:

Fernando still thinks that there is a Nefarious set of actions the Spirits are taking. And he's beginning to think that this is a universe of their construct, copied from the time line we came from but they allowed to fall apart. It would answer a lot of questions if it were to be. Thus it gets ugly from there: to rebuild this universe from their actions that nearly destroyed it, they must need Jeanette and her journal to fix it. Thus this will trap her out of place and time to be in this universe until it is repaired. How many millennia will that take?

With all of the accusations thrown against the Texas Spirits, now it appears you are looking at the facts though the conclusion drawn from those facts is still off. What the Texas Spirits did do does have something to do with the situation the characters are in now. Something happened in the latest change in the time line: The Texas Spirit had a "oh my gosh" moment. They now see what happened. The funny thing in all this is they are not guilty of a single charge brought against them while the true charge has never been filed.

Jeanette Isabelle

I used the 5'4" as a figure not as Jeanette's actual size. And I'm not taking her weight either because 10% taken off her adult weight put on a shorter body would make her fat on the obese level. Thus height does not equal weight distribution.

Fernando does not trust the spirits at all. Face that fact for what it is. I do not care of others think of him as paranoid or idiotic but he has his own reasons to be as such. It is his character and that is how I am playing him.

But there is something terribly wrong with Jeanette as as Fernando sees it, she is playing into the spirits' hands of giving them what they want. Win or lose for our side, they win no matter what. That is the one observation that Fernando has made that Jeanette does not seem to notice. And it is something she is getting from both Hikaru, Moro, and the other spirits. It is this journal they all want. Why? Because it contains within a solution that Jeanette found in her travel and life time, and it has been published. So why not go to the library and get it themselves? No. They want the original copy fresh out of Jeanette's hands.

This is why they are so willing to give her what she wants, pulled on her heart strings to connect to another, if not Elsa, then Penny.

Now I stated my points why it would not work. You can use handwavium and say that it is so, no matter how off it would be. Thing is, would it be believable? Would it be a good read? No, in both cases. This RPG is not to prove a point, it is an adventure, no matter how skewed it may be, of a group of time swept people to rescue who they can for the benefit of a society some false gods had created. There will be fun and tragedy, agreements and arguments, feast and hunger, health and sickness - all during this time of travel of some 1800 miles.

And that is the point. But I'll poke this one with a stick - if this age/body modification is supposed to happen to Jeanette in the future after they get there, why is it an issue now? That is where Fernando finds things to be nefarious with the Spirits. I stated this once before, the spirits should leave Jeanette alone and let her do her f'ing job! Instead they continue to interfere with what is being done. WHY?!! This is why Fernando finds it as a contract the devil made being signed by Jeanette, and he swore that he would be hands off. But Jeanette needs open up her eyes or else, she's the one that gets to be the Spirits' puppet for the rest of eternity until she gets sick of watching friends and family die generation after generation until she decides to take a bite out of a "Pineapple" (Army slang for "hand grenade").

Back to top

IP Logged

Fernando

YaBB Administrator

NY City

Posts: 2380
Gender: male

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1476 - Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm

Quote from Jeanette on Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:52pm:

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:30pm:

You can't just write in the little journal and have everything changed in the morning.

The Texas Spirits take the information they get. From that they know if something needs to be changed or not.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Aug 31^st, 2016, 9:30pm:

If the roads we're kept up by these aliens until now but aren't now then the travel time of the party would have been longer, some of these towns wouldn't exsiat, we might have gone a different route and never rescued anyone or maybe someone different.

Has the party traveled on fresh asphalt? No, they have not. Therefore nothing has changed in the area the party has been.

Jeanette Isabelle

1) That is actual tampering of the Time Line to their benefit which is a crime by the Time Lords. If a million people has to die so that one can live by the laws of natural selection, then so be it. But someone willing and knowingly kills off that one so that a million can survive because they want it that way is wrong. That is why in a lot of Sci Fi stories a "Non Interference Clause." "The Prime Directive" in Star Trek universe, "Non Interference by the Ancients and Star Gate Command" in SG-1.

This is something Fernando can act on and rid of the spirits once and for all.

2) The roads that the Spirits took care off are within a few dozen miles from the cities inside Texas they are working with. All roads outside of Texas were taken care off by the people and towns themselves. Texas is not the only state with "major" oil reserves. Canada and the Northern US States also has oil. Even in my state of New York has oil near the Canadian Border. This, among other things, is where they are getting fuel, oil, tar (for asphalt) and other thing is coming from. Drilling for oil has been around since the middle ages, so it is not difficult to do.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Aug 31^st, 2016, 10:15pm:

Like butter off a bald monkey. You missed it completely.

I am regretting letting you mod this.

Jefe, it's yours to deal with as I have no patience for this bull shit anymore.

The Site admin has spoken. This RPG is to continue without going off on wild tangents you keep throwing at it or it ends now.

Shit. 11 years old mother of a 9 years old.... wtf are you trying to prove? You're better than an actual teen mom? You are disrespecting them, with one of them being my cousin Lisa who had her daughter Cheyenne killed at 17 in 10/2010 because of some jealous asshole friend. Cheyenne received several scholarships for college and was planning medical school, her mother, my cousin, had her at the age of 14. So you are disrespecting her, you are disrespecting me. This line is drawn. Period.

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120725/central-harlem/cheyenne-baezs-killer-s entenced-32-years-life-prison

Back to top

IP Logged

Jeanette

Experianced

Posts: 1154

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1477 - Sep 1^st, 2016, 9:32am

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm:

I used the 5'4" as a figure not as Jeanette's actual size. And I'm not taking her weight either because 10% taken off her adult weight put on a shorter body would make her fat on the obese level. Thus height does not equal weight distribution.

A reduction in size includes weight, correct?

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm:

It is his character and that is how I am playing him.

That's fine. Let me do the same with my character Jeanette.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm:

It is this journal they all want. Why? Because it contains within a solution that Jeanette found in her travel and life time, and it has been published. So why not go to the library and get it themselves? No. They want the original copy fresh out of Jeanette's hands.

The current version is the most updated version. You already nailed it when you said "fresh."

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm:

You can use handwavium and say that it is so, no matter how off it would be.

As I had said, I am sticking to the rules that The Nobody established. Other than looking for loopholes, have I deviated from the rules?

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm:

And that is the point. But I'll poke this one with a stick - if this age/body modification is supposed to happen to Jeanette in the future after they get there, why is it an issue now?

The Texas Spirits want to understand what it would take for Jeanette to accept immortality. Why put that off? This can be done after Jeanette returns to her time but it would not be in the story.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:05pm:

But Jeanette needs open up her eyes or else, she's the one that gets to be the Spirits' puppet for the rest of eternity until she gets sick of watching friends and family die generation after generation until she decides to take a bite out of a "Pineapple" (Army slang for "hand grenade").

There are three Immortals in Jeanette's life: Hikaru, Theodore and Penny. Hikaru mentioned the name of another Immortal she knows: Billie. Moreover, if Fernando figures out what the Texas Spirits did do and does something about it, Jeanette would not be an Immortal forever.

Jeanette Isabelle

Back to top

IP Logged

Jeanette

Experianced

Posts: 1154

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1478 - Sep 1^st, 2016, 10:52am

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm:

If a million people has to die so that one can live by the laws of natural selection, then so be it. But someone willing and knowingly kills off that one so that a million can survive because they want it that way is wrong.

I don't see how that applies in this situation.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm:

This is something Fernando can act on and rid of the spirits once and for all.

What would be accomplished if Fernando gets rid of the Texas Spirits if he does not know what they did do? The Texas Spirits would be gone though things would remain the same.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm:

2) The roads that the Spirits took care off are within a few dozen miles from the cities inside Texas they are working with. All roads outside of Texas were taken care off by the people and towns themselves. Texas is not the only state with "major" oil reserves. Canada and the Northern US States also has oil. Even in my state of New York has oil near the Canadian Border. This, among other things, is where they are getting fuel, oil, tar (for asphalt) and other thing is coming from. Drilling for oil has been around since the middle ages, so it is not difficult to do.

It's been established that the Texas Spirits have restored Interstate highways (even ones away from Texas) that they need to pre-happening condition. The party has not seen them because they have not been on them. This was even mentioned in the narrative. If I put something in narrative that I know is not true, I would be lying.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm:

The Site admin has spoken. This RPG is to continue without going off on wild tangents you keep throwing at it or it ends now.

If this has to do with the reason Jeanette is willing to accept immortality, I have the right to write Jeanette as I see fit as you have the right to write Fernando as you see fit.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm:

Shit. 11 years old mother of a 9 years old.... wtf are you trying to prove? You're better than an actual teen mom? You are disrespecting them, with one of them being my cousin Lisa who had her daughter Cheyenne killed at 17 in 10/2010 because of some jealous asshole friend. Cheyenne received several scholarships for college and was planning medical school, her mother, my cousin, had her at the age of 14. So you are disrespecting her, you are disrespecting me. This line is drawn. Period.

Let me refresh your memory:

Quote from Jeanette on Aug 30^th, 2016, 9:29am:

Quote from Fernando on Aug 30^th, 2016, 12:00am:

3- as an 11 year old, Jeanette can not be a mother to Penny. It would be impossible because Penny will see her as an equal and not as a parent.

There's a simple solution. Delay the procedure.

Quote from Fernando on Aug 30^th, 2016, 12:00am:

Jeanette would have to remain as an adult until Penny has reached the chronological age of adulthood before Jeanette can revert back to 11. Only then is this possible.

You just presented the solution. Why are we talking about it?

Quote from Fernando on Aug 30^th, 2016, 12:00am:

and if you (dare) think that being an 11 year old mom is going to be cute, you will be disrespecting every teen mother that has undergone raising a child as a child themselves and doing so alone.

I never considered it for that reason.

Jeanette Isabelle

Back to top

IP Logged

Jeanette

Experianced

Posts: 1154

Re: After Chaos
Reply #1479 - Sep 1^st, 2016, 7:27pm

Quote from Jeanette on Sep 1^st, 2016, 10:52am:

Quote from Fernando on Aug 31^st, 2016, 11:45pm:

The Site admin has spoken. This RPG is to continue without going off on wild tangents you keep throwing at it or it ends now.

If this has to do with the reason Jeanette is willing to accept immortality, I have the right to write Jeanette as I see fit as you have the right to write Fernando as you see fit.

I believe this part needs clarification. Even if it is decided that Jeanette cannot receive the Texas Spirits' offer, how she feels about the offer cannot be changed. Since I would accept the offer in real life, it's only fitting that my character would do the same.

Like her, I would put it off if necessary. For Jeanette, the character, it is necessary that she put it off.

Jeanette Isabelle

Back to top

IP Logged