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Fourteen Generations (Read 503 times)
Jeanette
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Fourteen Generations
Jan 31st, 2017, 3:17pm
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 1:56pm:
Quote from Jeanette on Jan 31st, 2017, 10:39am:
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 30th, 2017, 1:27pm:
And as far as the generations go, count jesus. That's 14.

Clearly I need to prove to you that I know how to count.

1 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel;
2 and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
3 And Zorobabel begat Abiud;
4 and Abiud begat Eliakim;
5 and Eliakim begat Azor;
6 And Azor begat Sadoc;
7 and Sadoc begat Achim;
8 and Achim begat Eliud;
9 And Eliud begat Eleazar;
10 and Eleazar begat Matthan;
11 and Matthan begat Jacob;
12 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary,
13 of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 30th, 2017, 1:27pm:
Luke was the lineage through Mary.

Luke clearly states that this is Joseph's genealogy.

And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, -- Luke3:23, KJV

Of course we know Joseph is not Jesus' biological father. Joseph is Jesus' stepfather.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 30th, 2017, 1:27pm:
If you believe the bible is full of errors then can any of it be believed?

I'm presenting one example. I know of several examples in which something seems off but is not. There really is fourteen generations; in the King James Versions and most other English translations it appears there is only thirteen.

I can explain why there is in fact fourteen generations when it appears there is only thirteen; you wouldn't believe me. You said you studied Greek therefore you are able to see it for yourself. You knowing Greek, therefore are able to see it for yourself, is the reason why I picked this example.

Jeanette Isabelle


You still are not counting right. Count the names.14 names = 14 generations.  And as far as Luke's again n. It says Joseph was his supposed father. From a human view he was Jesus father. There is no word for father in law in the Greek as it was custom that once married the two were one so the wife's father IS the husbands father too. Yes it have taken classes in the Jewish traditions of the Bible and have read the wrong tings of Josephus. How does a engineering cowboy get this knowledge? Not only raised in church but went to a Christian non denominational college for 7 years where I got my engineering degree and they required Bible classes every semester and for the first 4 semesters 2 a semester. Plus I have studies on my own. My father was also a preacher for several years. But anyway, back to Luke. Once again you must look at the crowd they are talking to. I'd go into detail as I am not sure you would understand since you still have counted 14 names wrong several times. The short of it Matthews crowd was interested in parental lineage to David. Joseph was legally Jesus's father and Matthew proved legally he was in line to the throne. Luke's crowd was more worried about blood lines. And through Joseph's father in law, remember, culturally even in the Bible women we subservient to men which would account for them talking about Joseph instead of Mary.

We'll get to Luke later. For now I want you to see that I am counting all of the names.
 
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac;
3 and Isaac begat Jacob;
4 and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
5 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar;
6 and Phares begat Esrom;
7 and Esrom begat Aram;
8 And Aram begat Aminadab;
9 and Aminadab begat Naasson;
10 and Naasson begat Salmon;
11 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab;
12 and Booz begat Obed of Ruth;
13 and Obed begat Jesse;
14 And Jesse begat David the king;
 
"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;"
 
1 and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
2 And Solomon begat Roboam;
3 and Roboam begat Abia;
4 and Abia begat Asa;
5 And Asa begat Josaphat;
6 and Josaphat begat Joram;
7 and Joram begat Ozias;
8 And Ozias begat Joatham;
9 and Joatham begat Achaz;
10 and Achaz begat Ezekias;
11 And Ezekias begat Manasses;
12 and Manasses begat Amon;
13 and Amon begat Josias;
14 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
 
"and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;"
 
1 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel;
2 and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
3 And Zorobabel begat Abiud;
4 and Abiud begat Eliakim;
5 and Eliakim begat Azor;
6 And Azor begat Sadoc;
7 and Sadoc begat Achim;
8 and Achim begat Eliud;
9 And Eliud begat Eleazar;
10 and Eleazar begat Matthan;
11 and Matthan begat Jacob;
12 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary,
13 of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
 
"and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."
 
You claim I am not counting right. Who am I not counting?
 
Jeanette Isabelle
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Hondo I. Sackett
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Re: Fourteen Generations
Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2017, 3:55pm
 
1 Jechonias begat 2 Salathiel;  
2 and Salathiel begat 3 Zorobabel;  
3 And Zorobabel begat 4 Abiud;  
4 and Abiud begat 5 Eliakim;  
5 and Eliakim begat 6 Azor;  
6 And Azor begat 7 Sadoc;  
7 and Sadoc begat 8 Achim;  
8 and Achim begat 9 Eliud;  
9 And Eliud begat 10 Eleazar;  
10 and Eleazar begat 11 Matthan;  
11 and Matthan begat 12 Jacob;  
12 And Jacob begat 13 Joseph the husband of Mary,  
of whom was born 14 Jesus
 
And no, your skewed use of the Bible to force it to fit what you eat is what started this. You do not have the right to have things your way and back them with false info anywhere let alone here.
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Well the cowboy, like the red man, you had to leave your land
You can't raise your stock and plant your crop in the gumbo and the sand
Greed disguised as progress has put us to the test
They won't be glad until we're gone from our home out in the west
It's sad to see those good old days replaced with greed and doubt
Soon we'll leave the country, the campfire has gone out
Bid 'em all adieu, you can't turn the world about
The cowboy left the country, the campfire has gone out
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Jeanette
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Re: Fourteen Generations
Reply #2 - Jan 31st, 2017, 5:04pm
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 3:55pm:
1 Jechonias begat 2 Salathiel;

Jechonias was counted as Number 14 in the second set of fourteen generations. That is why, this time, I'm including all three sets of 14.
 
Quote from Jeanette on Jan 31st, 2017, 3:17pm:
14 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

You can't count one person twice.
 
Jeanette Isabelle
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Hondo I. Sackett
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Re: Fourteen Generations
Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2017, 6:50pm
 
Lol! Oh how I love that you change the argument the moment things look bad for you! lol!
 
Now , you want to go all the way back, once again I willl say this, the writer is proven by Christs lineage to David. It is well know that David is related to Abraham but the writer choose to put that in here. He never said there was 42 generation. He did say the generation to David from Abraham were 14 ( stop)!  Now from David the king of Israel of what m the messiah was suppose to be in the lineage of as to inherit the throne , so David #1 there are 14 generations from him to the carrying away. Jechonious was born around the time of the carrying away so he starts #1 for the next set. It's all about the focal point which is David. No one argues or contemplated Davids relation to Abraham or any Israelites relation up to the disappearance of the ten tribes, nor any Jewish persons after that's relation to Abraham. So Abraham is not the focal point. Numbers were of importance to the people of that time. You should read on it as it's an interesting study. 3, 7, and 14 are three important numbers. It is believed that the author added the 14 generation to David to grab the attention of the readers. But if we look at David as the focal point we have 28 from David to Jesus.    
 
I add this, anyone who wants the Bible to have errors or thinks it has errors will find errors. Those who believe the Bible to be preserved and actually care what version they read and see if men have tried to preserve or twist it for their own use, after a careful study will find answers for all the so call problems. No Christian should EVER believe the Bible to have any real errors of important. To believe that is to not know what to believe as any of it could be wrong. If you do not understand this then I seriously doubt your past stated beliefs. Yes we all have to read and let the Holy Spirit help us understand but anyone who calls themselves a Christian and would seek to try to prove there is error in it against someone trying to defend it is no Christian at all.   I could continue to "debate" with you but I do not believe you have the will and maybe not even the capacity to to be proven wrong or admit that maybe you don't know enough. I learn something new every time I open my bible and I have read it through about 20 times, some book far more than that. I have not read it enough. But I know enough to see when someone talks wrong about the Bible and my instinct is to defend it and study more if I need to to defend it better. You do not want to learn nor to defend the honor of something considered sacred. You just must be right and control everything. It is why I never wanted you on this forum. I have had other express interest in writing rpgs here and such but only if you are blocked from joining or interfearing. We have quite a few people reading the RPG and you are the reason no one wants to join, you are the reason several people left the cafe and other forums. Doesn't that say something to you? Or do you not care? I feel like I waste my time even replying to you. Why Fernando or I waste our time trying to help you be a better person is beyond me, but I think I'm actually done for a while. You want to humbly talk about the Bible I'm here. You want to pick it apart and trash it just to be right, go somewhere else. There are plenty of people who hate God, Jesus, and the Bible who are willing to trash it with you.
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Well the cowboy, like the red man, you had to leave your land
You can't raise your stock and plant your crop in the gumbo and the sand
Greed disguised as progress has put us to the test
They won't be glad until we're gone from our home out in the west
It's sad to see those good old days replaced with greed and doubt
Soon we'll leave the country, the campfire has gone out
Bid 'em all adieu, you can't turn the world about
The cowboy left the country, the campfire has gone out
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Jeanette
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Posts: 1154
Re: Fourteen Generations
Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2017, 10:18pm
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 6:50pm:
Lol! Oh how I love that you change the argument the moment things look bad for you! lol!

I'm not changing the argument. This time I went all the way back to Abraham to present to you evidence that I have accurately counted the generations.
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 6:50pm:
He never said there was 42 generation.

That is correct. Matthew did not say there are forty-two generations. He simply listed three groups of fourteen. I listed three groups of fourteen instead of one group of forty-two because that is how Matthew did it.
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 6:50pm:
I add this, anyone who wants the Bible to have errors or thinks it has errors will find errors.

A person should not be able to find any errors in the Bible. If there appears to be an error, we need to know why it appears that way.
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 6:50pm:
No Christian should EVER believe the Bible to have any real errors of important. To believe that is to not know what to believe as any of it could be wrong. If you do not understand this then I seriously doubt your past stated beliefs.

Actually I do understand what you're saying. A skeptical non-believer may look at Matthew 1 in the King James Version or other English versions, count forty-one generations from Abraham to Jesus and say, "You Christians can't do basic math."
 
Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Jan 31st, 2017, 6:50pm:
You do not want to learn nor to defend the honor of something considered sacred.

Of course I want to defend the Bible. If there appears to be a paradox, I want to know why there appears to be a paradox. If you do not believe there appears to be a paradox then I think it would be best to end it here.
 
Jeanette Isabelle
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