Hondo's Cabin - Website

Fernando

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Reply #10 - Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am

This is like that everywhere. Muslim Shities killing off Muslim Sunies. Chinese Budists killing Tibetian Budists. Catholics vs Prodestants. Jews killing other jews. It all makes no sense. The only thing that we can agree on is that we can not agree on anything.

There are how knows many versions of the bible, again 3 main churches- thousands of denominations. Personally, I would like to get very known copy of ever known religious text and dump it upon Jesus' feet and ask him which one is the one and only correct book. Chances are he would walk away, for none of them are the correct scribe. Worst yet, he'll come back to me with a blank art book to give.

I at a point where I do not care about the things I can not change. So why deal with them? People in Etheopia are starving. So? They are unwilling to help themselves out of a bad situation. But if a friend or family is starving- I help them. I draw the lines for my battles, not allow others to make those choices for me for idiotic ideals that only exist in the imagination of mad men.

What happen in history, stays in history. Again, I have no power in changing them so why bother? True- one must learn the lessons of history so that we dont make the same mistakes again, but it seems that as humans, we continue to do so.

Again, I dont care about the actions of others, espcially when I cannot alter their actions and they do not affect me. All I care about is the tiny circle of friends and family that I have, and anyone making a threat against them will have to deal with me. Some say that it is my Spanard within me. Other say that its me being a Roman Catholic. People are so willing to slap on labels that they are blinded by the actions that they do. I am me- being Spanish and Roman Catholic are small facets of the person that I am. People need to see that within themselves and stop making excuses about others. History is the past, it can not be changed, so its time to pick one's self up and do as they need.

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Winston

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Reply #11 - Feb 16^th, 2008, 2:37am

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

This is like that everywhere. Muslim Shities killing off Muslim Sunies. Chinese Budists killing Tibetian Budists. Catholics vs Prodestants. Jews killing other jews. It all makes no sense. The only thing that we can agree on is that we can not agree on anything.

No, it is not like that everywhere, at least in religious context. This point that Soda raises - that many interpretations of Christianity are hopelessly unable to reconcile with others and resort to confrontation and violence - is the primary flaw that prevents me from having any interest in being any of those forms of Christian. I evaluate by its results what the real priorities of a belief system are and what worth lies in it. Something that only seems to turn out to be good for petty squabbling, fearmongering, and abuse as a tool for exerting power is not worthy of consideration.

This is why I found something to be unique in Buddhism. Although there are so many different forms, the understanding shared between them all is that they all seek the same goal, simply through different means. As such, there really aren't many "my way is the only right one" conflicts between different branches. The goal of Buddhism is to actually pursue its stated goal, not to be a tool for controlling others. The different branches and forms have no need to fight with one another for control.

The "Chinese Buddhists killing Tibetian Buddhists" is thing is also misleading. The Chinese government is communist, not theocratic, and has no trace of any real Buddhist influence anywhere in its motivations or methods. Their illegitimate invasion of Tibet and the current terrorist and tyrannical acts they commit there are political, not about Buddhists killing other Buddhists over beliefs.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

There are how knows many versions of the bible, again 3 main churches- thousands of denominations. Personally, I would like to get very known copy of ever known religious text and dump it upon Jesus' feet and ask him which one is the one and only correct book. Chances are he would walk away, for none of them are the correct scribe. Worst yet, he'll come back to me with a blank art book to give.

Actually, he'd probably say that each and every one of those books is right because they all have something good in 'em. The only reason people even need to ask which one is "right" and which one is "wrong" is that so many people just don't feel like taking ten seconds of genuine thought get over their fat bloated egos to try and see things from another point of view.

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Fernando

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Reply #12 - Feb 17^th, 2008, 10:04pm

Quote from Winston on Feb 16^th, 2008, 2:37am:

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

This is like that everywhere. Muslim Shities killing off Muslim Sunies. Chinese Budists killing Tibetian Budists. Catholics vs Prodestants. Jews killing other jews. It all makes no sense. The only thing that we can agree on is that we can not agree on anything.

No, it is not like that everywhere, at least in religious context. This point that Soda raises - that many interpretations of Christianity are hopelessly unable to reconcile with others and resort to confrontation and violence - is the primary flaw that prevents me from having any interest in being any of those forms of Christian. I evaluate by its results what the real priorities of a belief system are and what worth lies in it. Something that only seems to turn out to be good for petty squabbling, fearmongering, and abuse as a tool for exerting power is not worthy of consideration.

This is why I found something to be unique in Buddhism. Although there are so many different forms, the understanding shared between them all is that they all seek the same goal, simply through different means. As such, there really aren't many "my way is the only right one" conflicts between different branches. The goal of Buddhism is to actually pursue its stated goal, not to be a tool for controlling others. The different branches and forms have no need to fight with one another for control.

The "Chinese Buddhists killing Tibetian Buddhists" is thing is also misleading. The Chinese government is communist, not theocratic, and has no trace of any real Buddhist influence anywhere in its motivations or methods. Their illegitimate invasion of Tibet and the current terrorist and tyrannical acts they commit there are political, not about Buddhists killing other Buddhists over beliefs.

Actually, my point was that no matter the religion, there is a group or group within that is willing to kill for its points to be expressed over another. The Chinese Buddhist church is not a real relgion, but rather a government subsidized group which will allow Tibetian Buddhists to be part of the Chinese system without persecution. They have their own (fake) Lamma (who recently dies and they have yet found a replacement). But as far as Buddhism is concerened, this fake group is out there killing the real ones in the name of the Chinese government.

Quote from Winston on Feb 16^th, 2008, 2:37am:

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

There are how knows many versions of the bible, again 3 main churches- thousands of denominations. Personally, I would like to get very known copy of ever known religious text and dump it upon Jesus' feet and ask him which one is the one and only correct book. Chances are he would walk away, for none of them are the correct scribe. Worst yet, he'll come back to me with a blank art book to give.

Actually, he'd probably say that each and every one of those books is right because they all have something good in 'em. The only reason people even need to ask which one is "right" and which one is "wrong" is that so many people just don't feel like taking ten seconds of genuine thought get over their fat bloated egos to try and see things from another point of view.

What I'm asking for is the totally correct book, total truth and not partial truths or misinterpretted truths. It is not too much to ask for. In that content, none of the written books fit, and a blank book would. He is god... he is supposed to give answers when asked.

But as for Christanity, like any other religion, you get out of it what you put into it. Only exceptions are religions that ask for blind loyal faith at the end of a sword (or gun- updated for modern times). Then that is no religion at all.

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Soda

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Reply #13 - Feb 18^th, 2008, 7:55pm

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

This is like that everywhere. Muslim Shities killing off Muslim Sunies. Chinese Budists killing Tibetian Budists. Catholics vs Prodestants. Jews killing other jews. It all makes no sense. The only thing that we can agree on is that we can not agree on anything.

This paints a very bleak picture of religion. If religion begets death, then I believe that life would be best if everyone were atheist.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

There are how knows many versions of the bible, again 3 main churches- thousands of denominations. Personally, I would like to get very known copy of ever known religious text and dump it upon Jesus' feet and ask him which one is the one and only correct book. Chances are he would walk away, for none of them are the correct scribe. Worst yet, he'll come back to me with a blank art book to give.

So, what you're saying is that God identifies no religious text as wholly correct? How are we, as His children, meant to identify which laws to live by? For example, Bible has either been protected by Holy means and is wholly true, or it has not and it has become corrupted. From what you've said, the latter is more likely true. I've seen first hand what happens with human communication, and I could understand if the Bible had been written based on distorted stories and 'Chinese whispers'. It's possible that nobody on this planet is living life correctly, in which case Heaven is likely to be a very lonely place.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

I at a point where I do not care about the things I can not change. So why deal with them? People in Etheopia are starving. So? They are unwilling to help themselves out of a bad situation. But if a friend or family is starving- I help them. I draw the lines for my battles, not allow others to make those choices for me for idiotic ideals that only exist in the imagination of mad men.

But who determines who is mad? Look at L. Ron Hubbard, the original leader of the Scientologist church. All accounts I've read indicate that he was quite crazy in his elder years (at least!), to the point of refusing to see doctors, despite numerous illnesses and even a broken limb. Yet, Scientologists who reach an OT level will swear that he and his works are inerrant.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

What happen in history, stays in history. Again, I have no power in changing them so why bother? True- one must learn the lessons of history so that we dont make the same mistakes again, but it seems that as humans, we continue to do so.

But what if history is rewritten, or badly recorded in the first place. Revisionism has happened, and will continue to happen.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 15^th, 2008, 12:38am:

Again, I dont care about the actions of others, espcially when I cannot alter their actions and they do not affect me. All I care about is the tiny circle of friends and family that I have, and anyone making a threat against them will have to deal with me. Some say that it is my Spanard within me. Other say that its me being a Roman Catholic. People are so willing to slap on labels that they are blinded by the actions that they do. I am me- being Spanish and Roman Catholic are small facets of the person that I am. People need to see that within themselves and stop making excuses about others. History is the past, it can not be changed, so its time to pick one's self up and do as they need.

That is a fairly reasonable way to live; one cannot help but live life as best they can, and 'isolate' themselves to friends and family that they enjoy. However, I am faced with a different situation. Some people will try their hardest to interfere with others. Whether they are simply trying to 'spread their faith', or murdering people in the name of some deity, these people cannot be avoided. For example, one group where I live, the Australian Christian Lobby, has successfully pressed both major Australian political parties into refusing same-sex marriage. This lobby has crossed a line here, and put their feet in my cake (so to speak). How can I live comfortably, when my basic human rights are being denied, and my sexuality is being discriminated against, all in the name of (someone's perception of) God? A similar thing happened at the Acorn Cafe, and now I am banned from there, simply for petitioning the administration for fairness in their rules. They strangely identified my petitioning at unfair criticism, and even called my avatar 'odd', but that's beside the point. I've been discriminated against yet again, in the name of a God. I've even had Christians knocking on my door to tell me the evils of homosexuality (once every month or so), and leaving notes and tracts in my letterbox (I usually get one or two a week).

I live my life like you live yours: I have my circle of friends and family, and I try to not involve myself in the affairs of others. However, people (usually Christian, but others too) consistently trespass into my life with apparent malice. How can I cope with that?

Quote from Winston on Feb 16^th, 2008, 2:37am:

No, it is not like that everywhere, at least in religious context. This point that Soda raises - that many interpretations of Christianity are hopelessly unable to reconcile with others and resort to confrontation and violence - is the primary flaw that prevents me from having any interest in being any of those forms of Christian. I evaluate by its results what the real priorities of a belief system are and what worth lies in it. Something that only seems to turn out to be good for petty squabbling, fearmongering, and abuse as a tool for exerting power is not worthy of consideration.

That's what I am perceiving from the realm of Abrahamic religion. It's a shame, because in general the primary teachings seem to be quite decent ('love your neighbour', 'do not murder', 'do not steal', 'love your parents', and so on).

Quote from Winston on Feb 16^th, 2008, 2:37am:

This is why I found something to be unique in Buddhism. Although there are so many different forms, the understanding shared between them all is that they all seek the same goal, simply through different means. As such, there really aren't many "my way is the only right one" conflicts between different branches. The goal of Buddhism is to actually pursue its stated goal, not to be a tool for controlling others. The different branches and forms have no need to fight with one another for control.

That sounds quite nice, and worth considering. I'll have to read more about Buddhism. Unfortunately, were I to take it up, it would undoubtedly be used as another lever against me, to prove how 'sinful' my life is.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 17^th, 2008, 10:04pm:

Actually, my point was that no matter the religion, there is a group or group within that is willing to kill for its points to be expressed over another. The Chinese Buddhist church is not a real relgion, but rather a government subsidized group which will allow Tibetian Buddhists to be part of the Chinese system without persecution. They have their own (fake) Lamma (who recently dies and they have yet found a replacement). But as far as Buddhism is concerened, this fake group is out there killing the real ones in the name of the Chinese government.

I tend to agree with Winston here. These people seem to be less of a religion, and more of a puppet being used to promote the themes of the Chinese Government. Their leadership appears to have been appointed into their roles by the Chinese Government, rather than their peers in their religion. This makes me think twice about their authenticity.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 17^th, 2008, 10:04pm:

What I'm asking for is the totally correct book, total truth and not partial truths or misinterpretted truths. It is not too much to ask for. In that content, none of the written books fit, and a blank book would. He is god... he is supposed to give answers when asked.

I'd like to read this book too. Why does He not provide answers, if people are asking for them?

Now, referring this all back to the topic at hand, I do not see how I am supposed to refuse the man that I love and join a Christian church, taking a chance that the denomination I pick is correct. That would be heartless, and I could never do such a thing. That's why I cannot understand why people cannot be more tolerant of the concept of homosexuality, or Wicca, or Hinduism, or abortion. If the teachings of God are so convoluted, so debatable, so ill-defined and so diluted, then how can anyone take one particular interpretation and adhere to it so adamantly? They've taking a shapeless hunk of ore (with so many possibilities), and fashioned into a sword and shield, which they violently wield against people who dare point out the ambiguity of it all. How can they do that?

It's left me in tears, more than once.

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Fernando

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Reply #14 - Feb 20^th, 2008, 12:02pm

People are just plain stupid and self center governing to allow anything to come between them and that which they hold holy in their views. The problem is, this perception is not the case. People see what they want to see and not what is actually there, and thus will attack their POVs.

Again, as I stated, Christianity has been a defender of its beliefs (like any other religion), and more often it takes a stance of defense that over powers any attack thrown at it and takes actions to destroy the attackers. In all cases, you can say 'If this event did not start it, then the Christians involved would not have been the destructive force...'

This is true of everyone of everything. You would not want for somebody to come to defile your home: family, friend, stranger or foe. You would take actions to get them out of your home.

Dont think about others. Only think what is right for you and how things fit for you. Despite the wrongs of the Roman Catholic Church, I accept only the good that they have to offer. If I can change things, I will. It is not the church that I follow, but the message that they have to give.

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Soda

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Reply #15 - Feb 20^th, 2008, 7:05pm

This is quite interesting... thanks for discussing it with my Fernando.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 20^th, 2008, 12:02pm:

People are just plain stupid and self center governing to allow anything to come between them and that which they hold holy in their views. The problem is, this perception is not the case. People see what they want to see and not what is actually there, and thus will attack their POVs.

This is true, to a degree. This is also why I'm such a firm believer in tolerance. Intolerance only results in hurt feelings and unnecessary conflict, which could so easily be avoided. Eternal happiness may await some of us, but some happiness here and now too will not hurt us.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 20^th, 2008, 12:02pm:

Again, as I stated, Christianity has been a defender of its beliefs (like any other religion), and more often it takes a stance of defense that over powers any attack thrown at it and takes actions to destroy the attackers. In all cases, you can say 'If this event did not start it, then the Christians involved would not have been the destructive force...'

I understand what you are saying, and this is true of many situations in history, but there are a few cases that fall outside that scope. I'll cover two that I'm familiar with:

The witch hunts... lots of innocent people were burnt or drowned for merely practicing a different belief. Whether someone else considers that belief to be the work of Satan or not is not really relevant. Neo-pagans made no deliberate aggression towards Christianity; but Christianity made a deliberate aggression towards them. So long as Neo-pagans are not hurting anyone, and they're tolerant of everyone else, I can't see the problem.
The current political situation with homosexuals... lots of innocent people are having basic human rights denied for merely falling in love with someone of the same gender. Whether someone else considers that love to be the work of Satan or not is not really relevant. Homosexuals made no deliberate aggression towards Christianity; but Christianity made a deliberate aggression towards them. So long as homosexuals are not hurting anyone, and they're tolerant of everyone else, I can't see the problem.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 20^th, 2008, 12:02pm:

This is true of everyone of everything. You would not want for somebody to come to defile your home: family, friend, stranger or foe. You would take actions to get them out of your home.

True. But, following your 'home' metaphor, if the person in question were quietly sitting outside on the pavement, the homeowner would have no right to harm or abuse them. Likewise, if someone wants to do something that harms nobody, yet is contrary to a religious belief, the religious have no right to harm, abuse, disadvantage or murder them.

Quote from Fernando on Feb 20^th, 2008, 12:02pm:

Dont think about others. Only think what is right for you and how things fit for you. Despite the wrongs of the Roman Catholic Church, I accept only the good that they have to offer. If I can change things, I will. It is not the church that I follow, but the message that they have to give.

That's understandable, and even admirable, but isn't it a bit like the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" concept? Although it's a lot more extreme, I do remember reading of a politician, and his party was involved in some particularly nasty business. Whenever someone tried to bring this nasty business to his attention, he would deliberately go out of his way to avoid learning what horrible things were happening. Even though he didn't know exactly what bad things were happening, he did know that something terrible was occurring, and he chose to ignore it. However, he supported his government, and quite vehemently too. Does this still not make him guilty, even to some extent?

So, I now have a few outstanding questions.

If religion is so ill-defined and debatable, how can someone so avidly defend their own self-perceived interpretation, despite the ambiguity that God has provided?
Why have churches been so historically violent, if peaceful solutions to the problems they perceive could have been found (such as merely exiling witches, rather than burning them)?
Why are churches so vigilant in attacking groups who are guilty of nothing but offending the church's own perception of morality?

Can anyone answer these questions for me please? Hondo, Nyperold, I'd be very grateful to hear your ideas. Thanks for your time.

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Hondo I. Sackett

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Reply #16 - Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm

folk don't like my views on this but I'll tell ya out straight. I believe the Bible in its entirety is true. from the line of believers I technically hold to there was not much fightin' as with the catholics and such, but even with a belief Man is inherently sinful and prone to mistakes. even whole denominations. I believe the bible clearly states how the earth was made, how we are sinful and it gives us the moral guidelines to follow as well. I believe we can not work to get to heaven as only faith through Jesus Christ can save your soul as he paid the price for our sins. I believe that there is one God and he is in 3 distinct persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. I don't hate folk how believe differently, even though as humans we tend to do that, I just feel bad that they don't see the truth. I do believe homosexuality is wrong, but i believe it is just as wrong as premarital sex for a heterosexual individual. I don't believe it is natural 'cause the Bible says it is not, but God let mens minds drift to this because they have rejected him so long. I don't see it as a natural right either. I can not make a person believe anythin'. thats up to God, I believe, but you ask and i'll tell you what I believe. Witch huntin' is not the right way, but I do see wrong in this all. from takin' away guns from the citizens to abortion to same sex marriages. all sin is on the same level in Gods eyes and he will forgive and help us to get out of sin if we truly repent and ask his help. he never said it would be easy, but its harder without him. I don't see Christianity as ill-defined but I see people that try to redefine it to suit them and that is wrong. yes there is a lot of 'Religions' out there but, contrary to some opinions, I don't see true Christianity as a religion. more as a faith. Please take this not as an offense but as a genuine worry over lost souls. I am not good at words and I come across harsh, but if a person is 'bout to get hit by a car do you yell to them or wait to get within' a polite conversation distance and suggest they move out of the way? I see this as that type of situation. lay it out and try to save the lost before they are lost forever. I'll be glad to answer anythin' else more in depth if you wish. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I'm not sorry for what it says or for truth.

Hondo

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Well the cowboy, like the red man, you had to leave your land
You can't raise your stock and plant your crop in the gumbo and the sand
Greed disguised as progress has put us to the test
They won't be glad until we're gone from our home out in the west
It's sad to see those good old days replaced with greed and doubt
Soon we'll leave the country, the campfire has gone out
Bid 'em all adieu, you can't turn the world about
The cowboy left the country, the campfire has gone out

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Winston

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Reply #17 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 12:17am

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I believe we can not work to get to heaven as only faith through Jesus Christ can save your soul as he paid the price for our sins.

That depends on whether or not you buy into the - pardon my opinion - crude concept that heaven is a literal afterlife, and worse, that it may be reached only in one particular way. That makes very little sense to me, considering.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I don't see Christianity as ill-defined but I see people that try to redefine it to suit them and that is wrong.

Then all Christendom is "wrong" and corrupt. Any Christianity you practice has already been redefined in the past to suit something for someone - that's how it got to where it is today.

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Soda

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Reply #18 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 12:56am

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I'll be glad to answer anythin' else more in depth if you wish. I'm sorry if this offends you, but I'm not sorry for what it says or for truth.

I appreciate your reply, to be honest. After all, I did ask you for it!

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

folk don't like my views on this but I'll tell ya out straight. I believe the Bible in its entirety is true.

That doesn’t bother me in the least.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I believe the bible clearly states how the earth was made, how we are sinful and it gives us the moral guidelines to follow as well.

I never did quite understand the concept of ‘original sin’, where Adam and Eve consumed the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. If the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life were not meant to be consumed, then why did God place them in the Garden of Eden? Also, bear in mind that human beings were made deliberately naïve, and as such, is it a real surprise that they were gullible when approached by the Serpent?

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I do believe homosexuality is wrong, but i believe it is just as wrong as premarital sex for a heterosexual individual. I don't believe it is natural 'cause the Bible says it is not, but God let mens minds drift to this because they have rejected him so long. I don't see it as a natural right either.

Deaf people use sign language to communicate, by using their hands. Using the hands to communicate a complete language is also an unnatural use of the body. I do not mean to sound confrontational, but does this make it also a sin?

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

all sin is on the same level in Gods eyes and he will forgive and help us to get out of sin if we truly repent and ask his help.

I always thought that there were 'degrees' of sin. Leviticus 19:19 clearly states that wearing clothing of mixed fibre is also a sin (link). Is that as bad a sin as, say murder or theft?

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I don't see Christianity as ill-defined but I see people that try to redefine it to suit them and that is wrong.

That’s different to what Fernando said, but it does answer one of my questions. Thanks!

So, in essence, you’re saying that the Biblical interpretation you have taken is correct, and other definitions are either ill-advised, mis-understood, or deliberately contorted? How does the average person (or even a particularly unintelligent person) tell which interpretation is right?

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

yes there is a lot of 'Religions' out there but, contrary to some opinions, I don't see true Christianity as a religion. more as a faith.

I always use the words ‘religion’ and ‘faith’ interchangeably. How do you define each one?

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

Please take this not as an offense but as a genuine worry over lost souls.

I suppose that it is reasonable to want to save people, but from their perspective, Jesus Christ may not appear as a saviour, or a Messiah. Instead, He may appear as something a lot worse than that. Attempting to ‘save’ these people may be taken as an insult to their intelligence and their own beliefs, and may only generate animosity.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I am not good at words and I come across harsh,

Hee hee hee... me too! I’m sorry if I ever come across that way. Wink

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

but if a person is 'bout to get hit by a car do you yell to them or wait to get within' a polite conversation distance and suggest they move out of the way?

So, in other words, it’s okay to spread the Bible through any means necessary, provided that God finds those means acceptable and not sinful? That seems reasonable from a Christian point of view, but other people might find this, for want of better words, annoying or even insulting.

Quote from Hondo I. Sackett on Feb 20^th, 2008, 11:05pm:

I see this as that type of situation. lay it out and try to save the lost before they are lost forever.

From a Christian perspective, if they choose to be ‘lost’, then can you not respect their wishes?

Also, I’ve got another question. Has there ever been any written works describing the history of the Earth, but written from Lucifer’s point of view? I enjoyed reading Genesis, and I’d like to read it from Lucifer’s perspective too. Like a Devil’s Advocate kind of thing, you know?

Anyways, thanks heaps for your replies, Hondo. I hope we can continue this conversation without any bad feelings.

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Winston

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Reply #19 - Feb 21^st, 2008, 4:23pm

Quote from Soda on Feb 21^st, 2008, 12:56am:

Also, I’ve got another question. Has there ever been any written works describing the history of the Earth, but written from Lucifer’s point of view? I enjoyed reading Genesis, and I’d like to read it from Lucifer’s perspective too. Like a Devil’s Advocate kind of thing, you know?

Check out Paradise Lost, by John Milton.

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