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The Cabin >> The Computer Room >> Recapping Mothers Boards and the LAW.
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Message started by Fernando on May 7^th, 2016, 12:24pm

Title: Recapping Mothers Boards and the LAW.
Post by Fernando on May 7^th, 2016, 12:24pm

This pertains to Automotive System computers and though I never heard a case of it, aviation computer systems as well. It is from a discussion from the Mac Liberation Army group - 68kmla.org In one of their off-topic threads, one stated 'Like the old Macs, would other computer systems be failing from Capacitor leaks and failure?' Somebody answered, 'Yes, many automotive (mostly emissions and ignition) systems would be failing too.' thus the question was asked, 'Why is there a business where not caring to these types of repairs? recapping a board is not that hard, and these system boards are failing whether they are in use in a car or stored on a shelf!'

First, lets look at what's happening: Capacitor failure.

This is only for the Electrolytic Capacitors. Whether it is radial (stand up kind) or axial ( horizontal type), one end of the capacitor has a rubber plug seal where one or both legs of the capacitor come out from. This rubber plus seal is crimped in place and for the most part, it is a perfect seal around the crimped area and the rubber plug. Inside the capacitor is the two plates with an dielectric acid which gives it its capacitance characteristics.

But giving time the rubber plug breaks down, and the seal between the plug, the case and even the legs rot away, causing the dielectric liquid to leak onto the board. When split, this acid breaks the electrical traces on the board, thus destroying the board.

Many people in the vintage computers and video games circles have been dealing with damaged board from capacitor leakage and many machines that were destined to go to the trash dump were brought back to life and even improved on them by replacing the electrolytic capacitors with a solid state capacitor like Ceramic, Tantalum, or other kinds where they can. Thus not only is a board repaired, it can last longer without a capacitor failure. This falls into another thread I created - if you were sending a computer to operate in the cold hard vacuum of space, what modifications will it need? Answer - all the electrolytic capacitors need to be replaced with solid state ones.

Many of these same people who had brought back dead systems by recapping and repairing the logic board, drive cars. In many of them - older cars; which are having their computer systems beginning to fail due to capacitor failure and leakage. When they bought a replacement computer to repair their cars with, many of them were dead or dying from cap failure as well. A few of them decided to take apart their car's computer systems and examine what was happening. They found capacitor failure with the electrolytic capacitors in these computers. So they decided to recap the boards with solid state capacitors and repair damaged traces where they find them.

Thus a few in the group decided to open up a company where they can service your car's emissions/ignition computers at a fraction of what a replacement computer would go for. All one has to do is send in their computer for repair and they would get it back in a couple of weeks later.

This was great, they were going to get their business license to do this and begin their business legally.

Then a lawyer in the group stepped up and pointed out a lot of issues:

1) Were they authorized to do such repairs? No, despite the skills they have in doing so, they had no authorization from the automotive companies to do this.

2) In an accident investigation, can they prove that their work was not at fault in the accident? No. Despite that the computer would be functioning better than before, if the automotive company was hiding another flaw that caused the accident - they would point a the unauthorized recapping job as the source of the accident, throwing blame at others and instead of themselves.

3) Do they have the insurance to cover for such lawsuits? No. This is a small operation and such insurance would wipe them out.

4) What guarantees can they give for the repaired unit to work for? Though technically, such repairs using solid state capacitors would last 50+ years, they can not give a "life-time" guarantee. They can not give a 5 year guarantee, a 1 year guarantee or even a 90 day guarantee. This goes back to #2 - if their is an accident, the automotive company will cite that their unauthorized repairs of recapping and repairing traces is the cause of the problems, and humans, no matter how much they try to be perfect, are not and things happen.

5) What if other parts of the computers fail, like the regulators or transistors? Are these covered? This also ties in to Number 4 as well. In the CB World, old radios are having regulator issues and not capacitor issues (most radios use solid state ceramic capacitors and not liquid electrolytic capacitors).

There were many other issues and legal matters pointed out. Thus a wonderful idea was shot down before it could be taken to a successful level.

One can easily repair their car's system boards to get it running again if they have the skills, tools and parts to do so. But people like to put blame where it does not belong when accidents happen to save their own guilty faced from any penalties, unfortunately.

Title: Re: Recapping Mothers Boards and the LAW.
Post by Hondo I. Sackett on May 8^th, 2016, 6:13pm

yeah, ya hafta cover your ass these days as everyone os lookin' to sue someone for every problem they encounter in life. some folks need sued but a lot don't.

I have done cap repair before/ especially on antique radios. usually thats the only problem with them, outside of blown tubes.

Title: Re: Recapping Mothers Boards and the LAW.
Post by Fernando on May 8^th, 2016, 10:46pm

It's gotten so bad, the 68KMLA group has posted warning about Apple getting on some members' cases on repairing dead Macs and Apples (from the 80s and 90s!). Whether it is true of not remains to be seen, but in seeing the stuff they are putting out now, its virtually trash that does out in about 5 to 10 years and you need to buy a whole new system then!

Like I stated, when we colonize the Moon and Mars in the next 20 years, what is going to happen those systems the colonists has after 5 - 10 years of use. No way they can go to the local Apple Store and get a new system! And shipping (to Mars) would takes almost 2 years to do unless a faster way is found!