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Rented Rooms >> Fernando's Corner >> A letter to Indy.
http://www.hondosackett.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1213813495

Message started by Fernando on Jun 18^th, 2008, 2:24pm

Title: A letter to Indy.
Post by Fernando on Jun 18^th, 2008, 2:24pm

This is the text of the second PM I sent to Dr.Indy at the cafe. It is obvious that he is not listening.

You have told all those involved almost a 1/2 a year ago that Gunslinger Girl X CDRR stories would not be allowed in the cafe because of its nature and content. You gave the group a chance to move it and we are greatful that you did.

But Jeanette has been up in arms about this because neither Arik or her have been able to control it like they have had in other people's story threads.

I find Jeanette's character of Misao, Laine and DOS to be nothing more than god-characters created to control a story to go their way. She has taken over and twisted stories about with them, and frankly I am sick and tired of it. And yes, I have spoken to her about it until I was blue in the face.

It is because of her that I limit my access to the story board, as she once had me rewrite entire passages of entries I wrote to satisfy her; but with a warning that she would never be able to do that to me again.

Now she has turned to you and have asked you to relinquish the ban of GsG genre over to her, and you gave her an OK to it- despite that number of NO's you and the rest of the admin staff gave to to me and the GsG/GsB group in the past. That cries of favoritism and hypocracy in my eyes.

If she wants to write such a story, there are outlets such as Fanfiction.com that would accept it. Frankly, the discussion on the chatroom is that no one in the original GsG/GsB group wants to see her do it on the cafe for the reasons stated above. You- the admin staff banned us and warned us to not release another GsG/GsB story into the cafe story board; it would be highly unfair that you would go above said warnings and give her free riegn to do what we cant.

Then again, this is YOUR Forum.

-Fernando.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Hondo I. Sackett on Jun 18^th, 2008, 3:51pm

what do you expect? did you get the note I forwarded to you?

Hondo

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Fernando on Jun 18^th, 2008, 8:35pm

Yes I got it.
Got connection issues at home, so I might not be online from home later tonight, but I will try.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Soda on Jun 19^th, 2008, 8:51pm

I'm sorry to hear about the troubles you've been having there, Fernando. It does seem unfair that you would be denied the right to distribute Gunslinger Girl × CnDRR fiction on the Acorn Cafe, while Jeanette is granted that same right.

I will admit that I have written to Indy many times regarding his rulings, to my detriment, so I am unsure if his reaction will be favourable. Perhaps Indy will listen to you, though. Please let us know how you go. Good luck, and take care! :)

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Campisi on Jun 21^st, 2008, 3:59am

Framwinkle (trust me, if anyone is wearing the pants in the admin family at the Cafe, it's Fram) probably figured that Jeanette would be a bit less fiery and difficult to control.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Soda on Jun 23^rd, 2008, 12:24am

What sort of content caused the problem at the Acorn Cafe in the first place? I don't know exactly what happened, but if you're ever looking for new places to share your stories, you may find a good audience at Chip 'n' Dale Online (http://www.chipndaleonline.com/phpBB3/). From my perception of the Acorn Cafe and their rules, we seem a little more relaxed at Chip 'n' Dale Online, and as such it might be another good place to post some of your works. :)

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Campisi on Jun 26^th, 2008, 5:59pm

Soda wrote:

From my perception of the Acorn Cafe and their rules, we seem a little more relaxed at Chip 'n' Dale Online, and as such it might be another good place to post some of your works. :)

It doesn't have that same Big Brother feel as the Cafe, that's for sure.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Fernando on Jun 26^th, 2008, 7:36pm

The Cafe's majority of members are over the age of 18, making them law abiding adults in most nations, including the USA.

But... the cafe's administration treats everyone there like they are kids, and scold them at times without warning or heresay. It is an issue that has always irked me since the beginning, and the only reason I joined is because somebody started using my persona and character, and doing so out of character. I had to straighten that out and a tone of Fernandoisms. No other reason would reason would I even consider joining a place like that!

Lets just say I like me too damn much!

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Hondo I. Sackett on Jun 27^th, 2008, 1:14am

some one has to, Fernando! :P

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Campisi on Jun 27^th, 2008, 4:49am

Fernando wrote:

... And it's only gotten worse since that chan "invasion" thing that as far as I can tell did very little to no actual damage to anything. It's almost like a Reichstag Fire...

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Fernando on Jul 2^nd, 2008, 3:49pm

You can say that again, Campisi.
There was another allegit threat against the cafe and my chatrrom not too long ago. In fact it was some idiots who tried to do a 1-year aniversary of the attack with another attack. Rumors abound and nothing was done. When this time, I said that I would take such actions like I did before, the admins pm'd me saying, "why waste your time? let them attack, and then they will tire out and go away..." It is that defeatist mentality that I cant stand!

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Soda on Jul 2^nd, 2008, 9:32pm

Fernando wrote:

The Cafe's majority of members are over the age of 18, making them law abiding adults in most nations, including the USA.

Perhaps you mean "legally accountable adults"?

Fernando wrote:

But... the cafe's administration treats everyone there like they are kids, and scold them at times without warning or heresay.

I'm sure that their intentions are different. However, what you are saying there is understandable.

Fernando wrote:

It is an issue that has always irked me since the beginning, and the only reason I joined is because somebody started using my persona and character, and doing so out of character. I had to straighten that out and a tone of Fernandoisms. No other reason would reason would I even consider joining a place like that!

Why would someone want to start using your persona and character? Do people have no imagination to make up their own?

Fernando wrote:

Lets just say I like me too damn much!

There is nothing wrong with liking oneself. Personally, I'm not too proud of myself, and I'd have to admit that I quite dislike myself. So long as people stay in the "median" of the self-esteem spectrum, without hitting either extreme end (either outrageous arrogance or horrendous self-loathing) I don't see any real problems. ;)

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Fernando on Jul 3^rd, 2008, 9:59am

Soda wrote:

[quote author=Fernando link=1213813495/0#7 date=1214523385]It is an issue that has always irked me since the beginning, and the only reason I joined is because somebody started using my persona and character, and doing so out of character. I had to straighten that out and a tone of Fernandoisms. No other reason would reason would I even consider joining a place like that!

Why would someone want to start using your persona and character? Do people have no imagination to make up their own?[/quote]
I have written many online stories/webcomic where I am the main character. And this person has known me for quite sometime on the online side. So when this person joined the cafe, they went straight to the story board and started posting my character out of character.

At first I did not know what was going on until somebody else pointed it out to me and I confronted the person. That personsaid that they would undo what they did, but didn't, later argueing that it was for their story. So I joined the cafe to put an end to it.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Winston on Aug 8^th, 2008, 12:10am

Fernando wrote:

That's not a defeatist mentality, that's pretty much the limit of what recourse, legally speaking, anyone has. Weathering out an attack from the -chan retards and encyclopediawhateverica without bothering to respond is not exactly difficult, since it apparently turns out that the average high school morons making up 99% of the demographic of those sites don't really have the mental acuity to do anything severely harmful. What are they going to do? Manage to get off one post with a bunch of foul language and a few adult shock images before they get permabanned? Wow, good for them. I hope it made some little kid feel really big that he knows how to use the post button. And, in 24 hours, will anyone even remember their jackassery? Nope. I think not, because fundimentally, it doesn't technologically undermine the forums.

More importantly, the response rather than the attack is kind of the point. When you get all angry and loud about it, without it doing any good or you being able to do anything to retaliate, then they know they've gotten under your skin. If you don't let it bother you and all they can see is that their attacks are coming to no effect, not even getting noticed other than to silently disappear without a trace, it's frustrating, or at least holds no thrill anymore, for them, because they're not affecting you. They're not accomplishing what they'd set out to accomplish.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Fernando on Aug 9^th, 2008, 9:06pm

You were there on those days, Winston.
Remember then that I stated that I would do something to try to shut down the Chan server and it work momentarily. It also stopped most of the future attacks to both the cafe and then chatroom up to present date by them.

I did what I promised to do- I sent them an invoice of damages and recovery to the ISP that hosted the Chan server for over $5000, with logs and a threatening letter stating that if they did not take care of their business pratices and of those pratices of their hosted members, I would take to their local authorities, which I also did via email. 4Chan went down the next day and stayed down for the next several weeks. Their members met up at other sites which I did the same to those hosting ISPs, and they were also momentarily shut down.

Anybody on the net can be traced, even if they are hiding behind a proxy. It is knowning how to IP trace somebody is what makes the difference in finding who people are.

4Chan went up again when its owner got the money to pay the bill. I know that he was hurting in more than just on the monetary level, having your hosted webserver taken down because of something stupid is an ego buster, and proof that they are not \b\ or as anonymous as they say they are.

You know whats funny, several admins from 4Chan created the another server I'm on and made me as an admin there. Then we had a talk on their chat service, and I told them about the first attack on the cafe and what I did to momentarily shut down 4Chan. They respect me for it, and they stated to me that any future attacks on the cafe or my chat will no longer be sanctioned or supported by them. But they can not stop individuals from being assholes. If an attack from the cafe comes from their members, they had promised me that I will receive ip logs of those members in question and they will assist me in following up with contacting local authorities and sending them information of such attacks.

Yes, the cafe's attitude is a defeatist one because they are unwilling to take actions to defend themselves or to protect the server its on. They are not wanting to check if the board is safe, for the last two (minor) board updates to the cafe was when I pm/emailed Indy and Kaga and told of security issues I had found. If they are not willing to protect the Cafe for what its worth, they are also not willing to protect the members within.

I will do what I can to protect the Cafe and any other server that I am on or own, but I will not look like a fool when I make a stand to take such actions and find that I stand alone and those who swore that they would back me up are not there.

Title: Re: A letter to Indy.
Post by Winston on Aug 10^th, 2008, 12:49am

Yes, I was there. As someone who was there, my memory is that I was personally watching 4chan, and they never went down for a timeframe anything like the "several weeks" you're describing. Nor do I remember that any of the ancillary sites they liked to use went down, since I was also watching a number of those.

The claim to have brought them down is frankly kinda hard to believe for that reason, and for the fact that it's not, in reality, just as easy as what you're saying you did. It's been ruled in (I think several) past court cases that the administrators / owners of an online message board are not legally and financially responsible for the actions of their users (because that's like suing a little corner restaurant out of existance because some bank robbers planned their heist there over dinner). On top of this, 4chan's threads don't identify specific IP addresses of users, so there's no way to positively correlate their users to your attackers to prove your case, and on top of that their threads vanish so quickly that after maybe an hour it's often impossible to prove that some specific thread ever even took place at all without access to 4chan's internal server logs (assuming those logs even exist, since they're rumored to turn over and wipe at frequent periods), and 4chan isn't going to have those over without a subpoena, I'm pretty sure.

Basically, I'm thinking that you could have sent them any invoice you want, they (both 4chan and their ISP) would have shrugged, crumpled it up, and tossed it in the closest wastebasket. They're not the ones getting in trouble or forking over cash over crap like this, and they know it. If they were likely to go down, they've have gone down before the Cafe, because they've fried bigger fish in their time (so to speak).

All that said, I'm willing to fight to protect the Cafe, in any way that I can. I agree with you that there's not exactly enough proactiveness on the administrative side to protect things. Politically, I also think that a big factor in fueling the will of certain idiots to attack in the first place is the moderation staff's (Indy and Framwinkle being the two I'm looking at here) often highly misguided leadership and policy setting that helps to alienate and antagonize people unnecessarily. But in that fight, I want to be realistic about the scope of what can really be done. One of the best policies in dealing with attacks like this is, at least in the public venue, to stay unpassioned, unimpressed, and generally silent, and create the impression that they are having no significantly disruptive effect and that these worms are beneath you (which, in actually, is very often true if people would just not let themselves get all disrupted over it). This is all a psych game to these kiddies. You have to look at some aspects of it in that way, rather than as a purely technological war.